... wait...
okay, this:
I'm searching for an alternative to Hoefler's Champion Gothic which accomplishes the following objectives:
1. Various series, meaning compressed, normal, and expanded to be used in headlines and subheads...
2. Has expanded character set for various languages...
Any help would be appreciated... thanks... (and remember to vote) !
Khaos
hkxnali said:It's discouraging to see that the forum wiped out by the actions of 1 troll. Is there a better forum meeting place? One that someone won't find easily using google? I've been collecting fonts from this site over the past few days.
PM me if you have any other forum ideas or want a font from Myfonts.com/bestsellers.
I guess you need to read the rules please :) if I were you i'd avoid making such offers in public.
khaosdark said:Here, in the land of FONT REQUESTS, a rational request might be: how is the weather in your neck of the woods?
... wait...
okay, this:
I'm searching for an alternative to Hoefler's Champion Gothic which accomplishes the following objectives:
1. Various series, meaning compressed, normal, and expanded to be used in headlines and subheads...
2. Has expanded character set for various languages...Any help would be appreciated... thanks... (and remember to vote) !
Khaos
Indeed very creative :)
My contact and exchange for shares. Is available I think it was inevitable that things were so.
Just like you erased years of work of type designers when you shared all these fonts?
Keep in mind: spending hours looking for fonts online also cost money.
Font shares does not equal missed font sales.
But I would like to know what the facts & figures collate to.
In the other hand, each time I used a font in production, on screen or printed, I always made my client buy it (end user !) , so it appear to me that for make good design (on the web it means stop using systems fonts), and also make the typedesigners make deals, my only option is to find commercial fonts on forums like this one, then make my clients buy it.
So downloading commercial fonts for free doesn't mean necessarily a loss for typedesigners, the problem would be to use it for commercial without buy it.
This is my ethics.
BuyFontsOrDieTrying said:Even if the ratio was 100 downloads = 1 sale, it would be unfair, illegal and incorrect.
I think it's more like 10000 downloads = 0 sales.
But like you I've absolutely no idea what the actual figures are.
You have to ask yourself that the figure of 100 downloads = 1 sale you stipulate, would a font house, actually see:
a) 100 potential customers = 1 sale, or would they just see it as:
b) copyright infringement?
I would guess b), but I've no idea.
I wonder then what percentage of free fonts actually gets used in commercial work?
Once again like you, I've no idea.
As an educated guess, it must be very low, as the majority of free font downloaders seem to just collect rather than actually use.
Truth be told, its all hypothetical nonsense, we need facts and figures, before we can really discuss this further. I think I'll contact a few major font houses to hear their comments. After all it's their work we are talking about.
Consider this: would you find normal if a company hired 100 graphic designers for a project, and then paid only the one they choose.
Then they would say "Should I pay all the graphic designers I need in this elaboration process ?"
If you train your eyes, you will not need to test hundreds of fonts for a project. 3 or 4 will do. If you buy a few typefaces regularly, you will get to know them and you will be able to know for which project they will fit.
Also, the end user is not the client. Foundries request that you have a valid license to use a font, for every computer where the font is installed. So if your client will also use the font, he will need another license. But buying a license for your client does not mean you don't have to buy a license for you, when you design a project.
Foundries provide you with specimens and font testers on their website to test words and see if the typeface fits your needs. If you cannot make a decision on that, contact the foundry. In any case, because you are unhappy doesn't give you the right to break the rules.
If you finally buy the typefaces you use, that is certainly a great step. But you must understand foundries. They cannot know if the people spreading fonts here will buy them or not. The easiest it is to steal their font, the less people will buy them. So have a bit of understanding and respect. If you are going to use fonts illegaly to try them, at least don't put them online publicly where they will be downloaded by people who never buy anything.
audiopimp> No, you don't need facts and figure, simply because you are not the one who should decide what people should do with their work. When somebody creates something, they get to decide if this thing is free or not, the price, the way they distribute it, and with whom they distribute it. That is their right as creators and you need to respect it. End of discussion
If you train your eyes, you will not need to test hundreds of fonts for a project. 3 or 4 will do. If you buy a few typefaces regularly, you will get to know them and you will be able to know for which project they will fit."
There are actually sites that do just that, and it's pretty successful. Logobee.com for example. Customers submit a description of what they want, and what they want to pay and anyone is free to design something. At the end they only pick one and the one person gets paid.
There are a million VERY similar typefaces nowadays--90% of which I consider a lazy way to earn money by type designers. With the accessibility of the internet, those lazy fucks are able to make a boatload of money off of their font that's basically a copy of helvetica with some subtle "swashes".
"If you train your eyes".... sounds like that logic fits in a similar lesson as "work smarter, not harder". Well thats what I do anyway, and my eyes are trained to find what I need faster and easier. Everyone is out for their own gain, ESPECIALLY on the internet, and ESPECIALLY font designers. Whether thats in the form of taking what you want, or letting guilt take over to where you need reassurance/acceptance more than you need a font.
All of that is just rambling really... my real argument is: who cares.
Thats true. It's one of the wonders of the internet. In fact, it's up to anyone to do anything anyone wants :D
Yes and these sites are really hurting the practice of graphic designers. Everybody deserve to be paid for their work, not only the winning graphic designer. In any case, if graphic designers want to take part to such scams, it is their right. But if typefoundries don't offer their font for free, you are not allowed to take them just because you want to.
"There are a million VERY similar typefaces nowadays--90% of which I consider a lazy way to earn money by type designers. With the accessibility of the internet, those lazy fucks are able to make a boatload of money off of their font that's basically a copy of helvetica with some subtle "swashes"."
If you think these fonts are bad, simply don't buy them.
If they are so similar and lazy, why do people want to share them here?
What you say is untrue, these designers don't make a lot of money. There are only a few type designers and foundries that make a lot of money from this work. Most really don't. It costs money to buy the software to design typefaces, to design a website, to create specimens etc.
"my real argument is: who cares."
Well thank you for proving you are just an egoistical person who doesn't care if others can live from their work. I'm sure not everyone is like you, otherwise I wouldn't write here. And some people have shown much nicer and respectful attitude.
But you are probably just angry that the admin took down all the topics. You'll get over it and i'm sure you will find another place to continue not caring about others.
Cheers
You may as well tell everyone "There are 24 hours in a day?"
I know what, why don't you come back with more copy & pasted comments, and expect us all to absorb your unwanted verbal diarrhea.
Well, neither are you the one who is to decide what people should do with their buying power.
In fact if someone comes here and searches for a font, he does that not because he is a thief and shell be punished, but because he considers your font not being worth that price you claim.
Your product is not worth to him what you desire him to pay you. He therefore would one way or the other not buy your font.
What does that mean for you? You are not loosing anything from sales, because people who are searching for free downloads would not buy in any other case from you, except you would alter the price.
In fact you should recognize that you are gaining from people who use your font in an aesthetic way for their clients. Imagine your font is used and becomes well-known, this will increase the demand in people who want this font. Your work will get desirable for more people than it was before it was getting shared, and among these people there will be new ones who will buy from you because your work is worth your claimed price to them.
Take as an example Helvetica Neue. It is probably the most common font.
Do you really think it bothers Adobe if it is shared? Quite the contrary.
I tell you honestly: I have never used a font for any commercial project whatsoever. I simply love beautiful typefaces and collect them for my own pleasure. It's fascinating for me, and I admit if I would use them for a client the case would be clear for me: The client has to pay the expenses for third party instruments. But that is the fault of some so called designers and their poorly designed contracts.
In any case, please do consider the points I brought up which might seem very confusing for you right now and make great fonts for you and everyone who considers the price you demand as being correct.
LaTeXian
Consider this: would you find normal if a company hired 100 graphic designers for a project, and then paid only the one they choose.
Then they would say "Should I pay all the graphic designers I need in this elaboration process ?"
If you train your eyes, you will not need to test hundreds of fonts for a project. 3 or 4 will do. If you buy a few typefaces regularly, you will get to know them and you will be able to know for which project they will fit.
Also, the end user is not the client. Foundries request that you have a valid license to use a font, for every computer where the font is installed. So if your client will also use the font, he will need another license. But buying a license for your client does not mean you don't have to buy a license for you, when you design a project.
So, no I'm not ok with the foundries license terms. But They're not dupe: the recent FontFont photoshop plugin aims to fill the gap between real life and a "perfect" copyrighted world, it is not perfect, but an encouraging first step. I assume if foundries continue to adapt to the digital world we're in, providing us efficient tools we won't be in need to skirt their inadequate rules.
That is the rule in most of communication market, as in architecture... and even in custom font design! it's called a "call for tender".
No that is not the rule at all.
In architecture, every agency is compensated for their participation in a pitch. In graphic design, agencies are sometimes compensated, sometimes not.
It has become a more and more common occurence that companies try to get designers to work for free. And many designers have complained and criticized this tendency. You trying to defend this bad habit to justify your illegal downloading of fonts is just counterproductive to your own line of work.
You might want to read this and reconsider:
http://www.no-spec.com/faq/
As I've said before (and you of course fail to answer that), if somebody wants to work for free, it is their call to make. But because YOU are ready to work for free in a contest, does not mean every body has to work according to your standards.
You are not making the rules. You have no right to tell others how they should work.
Ok, test only 3 or 4 fonts for a project, and only have a few hundred fonts you always use, is the best way to work with recipes that kill creativity and to always serve the same old soupe without regard to the client specificity.
"only" a few hundred fonts? A few hundred fonts is A LOT.
Vignelli made a career claiming a designer needs only 5 typefaces. I would not agree, but he had a point: typefaces are not creativity. Typefaces are not concepts. They are the bricks of your project. You are the architect. The originality of your project will come from your brain and your ideas. And sure, you can also find a nice typeface. But you really don't have to try hundred of typefaces to reach that goal. Anyway, if at least at the end you buy the typeface, that is good. But again, type foundries have no assurance that the people sharing fonts here will not use them for profesional projects. Try changing perspective for a while. You are not alone on this planet, the font designers need to be paid for their work, plain and simple.
I know the licence terms. Hypocrisy, again.
Who can afford it? Even big international agencies doesn't pay for a licence per computer. These terms probably lasts since the time when there was only one computer per agency which was the equivalent of a heidelberg press for a printer. But are no longer coherent with the nowadays business realities (a lot of people/computers working on a project).
Oh come on now! 50$ for a font for one computer is not much. Many foundries offer this price for up to three or five computers. Agencies spend more for their coffee. A font can last 10 or 20 years and can be used as many times as the designer wants. That is plenty of occasions to make a buck out of that font. If not, try getting your client to pay you a decent price for your projects, instead of working for half what you should earn and then stealing fonts because of that.
You are reasoning in bad faith and rationalizing your actions.
So, no I'm not ok with the foundries license terms. But They're not dupe: the recent FontFont photoshop plugin aims to fill the gap between real life and a "perfect" copywrited world, it is not perfect, but an encouraging first step. I assume if foundries continue to adapt to the digital world we're in, providing us efficient tools we won't be in need to skirt their inadequate rules.
If you are not okay with their terms, simply don't buy them.
Before complaining here about their terms, have you ever written to a foundry and tried to explain that you think their license is not adapted to reality?
I'm sure you have not, because you know the foundry will explain to you why they have such terms. The truth is, you are only interested in what you think and what you believe is right.
Nobody is forcing you to buy these fonts. You will not die if you don't have all the typefaces ever created by mankind.
Typefaces have never been as cheap as they are today.
Now you get a font for often less than 50$, big families for 200 to 500$ in general.
40 or 60 years ago, when it was phototypesetting or lead, they were much more expensive and you had to wait until you would get your fonts.
So you really are just ungrateful for the technologic advancement digital has given you. You only see files that you can share easily.
Whatever I say, you will continue to oppose it so there is no point in continuing this discussion. I've said what needed to be said. Think about it, agree, disagree, stop sharing fonts or don't. You are grown ups so you can make whatever you feel is right.
Cheers
So many of your arguments are just straight up incorrect, it's embarrassing.
Mine? Well I'm just a person, not perfect, neither are my "arguments".
On top of that I am tired of writing here, I really can't spend more time making these arguments.
But feel free to correct whatever you want and give your own opinion.
You had my respect at first, but now you sound like a miserable old fucker, who's got nothing better to do but to regurgitate the same earache about sharing files, when in actual fact you download other files illegally. Which by some form of twisted reality seems to be OK with you!!!
Take a hint, go BUY your FONTS, save the world, and HOPEFULLY you'll DIE Trying.
Then we can all cheer the nauseating demise of a righteous ignoramus.
